[Xmltv-devel] Live/Taped attribute

Discussion:

Robert Eden

2016-05-07 04:11:17 UTC

I could have sworn I posted this already, but don't see it in the archives.

tv_grab_na_dd has access to an attribute that specifies if a show is
Live, Delayed (same day), or Taped. I think it's designed for sports,
but it could be used in more than that. The raw data attribute is
called "live_tape".

I've received a request to pass it to XMLTV format.
Comments/Suggestions? I'm not a fan of "live_tape" for the attribute
name, but can't think of anything better.

Thoughts?

Robert

h***@gmail.com

2016-05-07 08:02:26 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robert Eden
I could have sworn I posted this already, but don't see it in the archives.
tv_grab_na_dd has access to an attribute that specifies if a show is
Live, Delayed (same day), or Taped. I think it's designed for sports,
but it could be used in more than that. The raw data attribute is
called "live_tape".
I've received a request to pass it to XMLTV format.
Comments/Suggestions? I'm not a fan of "live_tape" for the attribute
name, but can't think of anything better.
Thoughts?
Robert

Marc Thompson

2016-05-07 11:34:54 UTC

Permalink

Is it possible to get the season/episode instead of the absolute episode number? It may only be available in the json feed.

Apologies for hijacking. In terms of 'live', I'm not sure how that would personally benefit me unless tvheadend ( or whatever ) could use it to add minutes onto live recordings. One man, one vote.

Thank you

---
Marc Thompson

Post by h***@gmail.com

How about 'tape_delay'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_delay
Or perhaps better: 'liveshift'. (Bit like timeshift) This could potentially have text values (e.g. 'live', 'delayed', 'recorded') as well as numeric values (e.g. '1', '4').
Geoff
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Robert Eden

2016-05-07 18:35:12 UTC

Permalink

season/episode for tv_grab_na_dd? It's not in the data feed used by
na_dd... only SD_JSON has it. There is an XMLTV grabber under
development for SD_JSON though...

https://github.com/kgroeneveld/tv_grab_sd_json

Robert

Post by Marc Thompson
Is it possible to get the season/episode instead of the absolute episode number? It may only be available in the json feed.
Apologies for hijacking. In terms of 'live', I'm not sure how that would personally benefit me unless tvheadend ( or whatever ) could use it to add minutes onto live recordings. One man, one vote.
Thank you
---
Marc Thompson

Nick Morrott

2016-05-12 20:59:54 UTC

Permalink

An idea:

i) add an optional programme element "live" to specify whether a given
programme is broadcast live (element present) or not (absent).

<!ELEMENT live EMPTY>

ii) add an optional programme element "live-delayed" to specify if a
live transmission is being shown in its entirety but after a
tape_delay.

<!ELEMENT live-delayed EMPTY>

iii) update the <programme> element to optionally permit one of either
"live" OR "live-delayed" as a sub-element:

<!ELEMENT programme (title+, sub-title*, desc*, credits?, date?,
category*, keyword*, language?, orig-language?,
length?, icon*, url*, country*, episode-num*,
video?, audio?, previously-shown?, premiere?,
last-chance?, new?, subtitles*, rating*,
star-rating*, review*, (live | live-delayed)? )>

Anything consuming the data could look for these elements
automatically and optionally add extra time to a recording in case the
live showing runs late.

Cheers,
Nick

Robert Eden

2016-05-12 21:16:04 UTC

Permalink

Post by Nick Morrott

i) add an optional programme element "live" to specify whether a given
programme is broadcast live (element present) or not (absent).
<!ELEMENT live EMPTY>
ii) add an optional programme element "live-delayed" to specify if a
live transmission is being shown in its entirety but after a
tape_delay.
<!ELEMENT live-delayed EMPTY>
iii) update the <programme> element to optionally permit one of either
<!ELEMENT programme (title+, sub-title*, desc*, credits?, date?,
category*, keyword*, language?, orig-language?,
length?, icon*, url*, country*, episode-num*,
video?, audio?, previously-shown?, premiere?,
last-chance?, new?, subtitles*, rating*,
star-rating*, review*, (live | live-delayed)? )>
Anything consuming the data could look for these elements
automatically and optionally add extra time to a recording in case the
live showing runs late.

I'm far from an XML user much less expert, but is that the way it's
normally done? Mark's
"tape-delay" = "live|delay|taped" looks cleaner to me.

Nick, is your way more "the XML" way?

Nick Morrott

2016-05-12 22:20:38 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robert Eden

Post by Nick Morrott
i) add an optional programme element "live" to specify whether a given
programme is broadcast live (element present) or not (absent).
<!ELEMENT live EMPTY>
ii) add an optional programme element "live-delayed" to specify if a
live transmission is being shown in its entirety but after a
tape_delay.
<!ELEMENT live-delayed EMPTY>
iii) update the <programme> element to optionally permit one of either
<!ELEMENT programme (title+, sub-title*, desc*, credits?, date?,
category*, keyword*, language?, orig-language?,
length?, icon*, url*, country*, episode-num*,
video?, audio?, previously-shown?, premiere?,
last-chance?, new?, subtitles*, rating*,
star-rating*, review*, (live | live-delayed)? )>
Anything consuming the data could look for these elements
automatically and optionally add extra time to a recording in case the
live showing runs late.

I'm far from an XML user much less expert, but is that the way it's
normally done? Mark's
"tape-delay" = "live|delay|taped" looks cleaner to me.

I'd rather see a simple

<live /> or <live-delayed />

flag in the XMLTV data, than

<tape-delay>live<tape-delay> or <tape-delay>delay<tape-delay>

<live /> is cleaner (IMO), easier to read, and easier to program against.

(I'm not sure about any proposed implementation details for
tape-delay, so I'm guessing here. It could be less noisy.)

Across all grabbers, I'd imagine the overwhelming majority of
programmes using these new flags would specify the "live" flag to
specify a real "live" transmission.

Here in the UK some programming that has had a known live-delay are
Formula 1 races where the broadcaster has not had the right to air the
race live, and repeats of live material on the BBC's Red Button and
interactive channels.

Post by Robert Eden
Nick, is your way more "the XML" way?

The idea was to keep the implementation simple. W.r.t "tape-delay" I'm
not sold on using an anachronistic term (i.e. tape) for a new element.
Maybe broadcast-delay would be less specific in this instance?

Cheers,
Nick

Robert Eden

2016-05-12 22:24:26 UTC

Permalink

Ok.. you convinced me... I also realize that there is no reason to ever
specify "taped" as that would be "normal".

Any other comments?

Karl Dietz

2016-05-12 23:04:38 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robert Eden

Post by Nick Morrott
i) add an optional programme element "live" to specify whether a given
programme is broadcast live (element present) or not (absent).
<!ELEMENT live EMPTY>
ii) add an optional programme element "live-delayed" to specify if a
live transmission is being shown in its entirety but after a
tape_delay.
<!ELEMENT live-delayed EMPTY>
iii) update the<programme> element to optionally permit one of either
<!ELEMENT programme (title+, sub-title*, desc*, credits?, date?,
category*, keyword*, language?, orig-language?,
length?, icon*, url*, country*, episode-num*,
video?, audio?, previously-shown?, premiere?,
last-chance?, new?, subtitles*, rating*,
star-rating*, review*, (live | live-delayed)? )>
Anything consuming the data could look for these elements
automatically and optionally add extra time to a recording in case the
live showing runs late.

Ok.. you convinced me... I also realize that there is no reason to ever
specify "taped" as that would be "normal".
Any other comments?

We have live-on-tape (appears to be a german term) shows. Basically
shows that are produced as live shows, but aired on a different day.
E.g. for a weekly show four episodes may be produced in one week, but
aired over the time of a month.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_on_tape
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmer_frei!#Produktion_und_Ausstrahlung
Repeats are shown as is years later.

Is the first showing of a live-on-tape show "live"?
Is a repeat of a live-on-tape show "live"?
Is a unmodified repeat of a live show "live"? (we have some shows that
are broadcast live at prime-time and repeated later on the same evening
with added sub titles / captions)

How do you model sports events that are transmitted live and then
repeated multiple times some hours later, likely reduced to the
interesting parts.
Is that one "live" programme called "the event" and a different
programme called "repeat of the event" with multiple repeats of the
latter?

Regards,
Karl

Robert Eden

2016-05-13 00:42:18 UTC

Permalink

Post by Karl Dietz
We have live-on-tape (appears to be a german term) shows. Basically
shows that are produced as live shows, but aired on a different day.
E.g. for a weekly show four episodes may be produced in one week, but
aired over the time of a month.

To me, "live" means currently occurring. Maybe a short (few min max)
delay for technical or censoring reasons.

"live-delayed" means an unedited show replayed soon after it happened,
but I'm fine not having a rigid time limit. An unedited show played as
if it was "live".

A grey area would be Olympics (at least here in the US), where events
are "live-delayed", but lots of editing jumping between events.

Like the concept of "new" and "repeat", nuances of the values will be
data source dependent.

Robert